Discussion and Dialogue

Yesterday I had a great conversation with two of my close friends before work. Mike, who is currently a seminary student, had written a paper for a class focused on homosexuality and the church. So Mike, Kevin, and myself took some time to discuss his thoughts. I'm not going to get into the whole discussion, but afterwards I was talking with Kevin and he brought up something I had never thought about...the difference between discussion and dialogue. He gave his definition of the two words...

Discussion - I tell you what I believe so I can convince you I am right and vice versa.
Dialogue - You tell me what you believe so I can understand you better and vice versa.

See the difference? The agenda of discussion is to prove I'm right while the agenda for dialogue is to better understand where you're coming from. As I see it, Christians many times have no problem engaging in discussion, but dialogue takes a different attitude. It's hard for us to make this shift because for so long we've all been convinced that we are right. I'm not denying that there is truth, but what happens if we don't fully have that truth figured out? What if the truth that we think we have figured out appears to have holes? Shouldn't we listen to others' experiences and at least give them time to share where they are at rather than just dismiss them?

I'm reminded of a term I learned while reading Scot McKnight's 5 Streams of the Emerging Church. McKnight uses the term "chastened epistemology," which he defines on his blog - "the Subject (you and I when we are attempting to “know”) is always involved to one degree or another in knowing the Object (what you and I are trying to “know”). Humans are limited and fallible — every last one of us. Therefore, everything we know and everything we articulate is to one degree or another limited and influenced by who we are and what we think and what we want to be true." In other words, because God is fully unknowable and we are fallen individuals, no matter how convinced we are that we are right, there is still the possibility that we are wrong.

This is the attitude I believe we should have as we enter into dialogue with others.

Emerging Posters

Go here to view more great work done to express the thoughts of an Emerging proponent.

Influential Survey

This is part of a survey that is being done in blogland and I thought it looked interesting. If you want to participate, copy and paste this to your own blog and follow the instructions below...

From Julie and Mark at The Jesus Manifesto -"I’m interested in your perceptions of influence in contrast to those who have actually influence you. Here’s how my little experiment will work. After each of the categories below, add people to the lists. If someone has already “taken your answer” put an “x” behind their name. Make sense? I’m assuming that some folks will add names to the list, but many others will agree…some folks will have lots of x-es after their names.Once you’ve added to the list and posted on your site, please leave a comment here. I’ll try to keep the list updated. Oh, and please don’t list yourself or your own blog or your own community."

Who do you think are the two most influential Christian spiritual leaders today (in North America)?
1. Rick Warren xxx
2. Joel Osteen xx
3. T.D. Jakes
4. Joyce Meyers x
5. Jim Wallis xx
6. Bill Hybels x

Who do you think are the two most influential emerging Christian spiritual leaders today (in North America)?
1. Brian McLaren xxxx
2. Rob Bell xxx
3. Todd Hunter
4. Tony Jones x
5. Dan Kimball

Which two Christian spiritual leaders (in North America) do you think are most worthy of being influential?
1. Eugene Peterson xx
2. Ched Myers
3. Rich Nathan
4. Diana Butler Bass
5. Jim Wallis xx
6. Brian McLaren xxx
7. Rob Bell
8. Richard Foster xx

Which two churchy or theological blogs do you think are the most influential?
1. The Jesus Creed xxxx
2. Real Live Preacher x
3. Tall Skinny Kiwi xxx
4. Jollyblogger
5. God’s Politics
6. Beliefnet.com x

Which two churchy or theological blogs have influenced you the most?
1. Reclaiming the Mission
2. Leaving Munster x
3. Internet Monk x
4. The Kinglings Muse
5. Jesus Creed xxx
6. Dylan’s Lectionary Blog x
7. Conversation at the Edge
8. The God Hungry x
9. The Radical Pastor x
10. Vintage Faith

Which two North American church communities do you believe are the most influential?
1. Willow Creek xxxxx
2. Saddleback xxxxx
3. Lifechurch.tv
4. Vineyard Columbus, Ohio

Which two self-described emerging/missional (North American) communities do you believe are the most influential?
1. Solomon’s Porch xxxxx
2. Mars Hill (take your pick) xxxx
3. Imago Dei, Portland
4. Vintage (Santa Cruz) x

Which two North American church communities do you think are most worthy of being influential?
1. Church of the Savior (Washington, D.C.) x
2. A Catholic Worker house…take your pick
3. Oscar Romero Catholic Worker, Oklahoma City
4. Koinonia, Georgia
5. Apostles Church, Seattle WA
6. Vintage Faith x
7. St. Sabina (Chicago, IL) x
8. Mars Hill, MI xxx
9. the simple way, Philadelphia PA
10. Irving Bible Church x

If You're Curious About Emergent

Now the way I understand it, there is a difference between the current words emergent and emerging. Emergent has to do with the community that is based on emergentvillage.org and emerging is the term used to describe the conversation/church/movement that is currently challenging the modern concept of Christianity. With that having been said, I think there are also many who would say emergent and emerging are the same thing. Either way, if you want to learn more about emergent, read An Emergent Manifesto of Hope edited by Doug Pagitt and Tony Jones. Its a collaboration of thoughts from an eclectic group of people (catholics, protestants, mainliners, authors, counselors, etc...) about the emergent conversation. It's a great read especially if you're confused about all this stuff. The best part is each contribution is only about 5 pages long and if you get confused by one author you can skip it and move on to the next one.

Ditto

Rather than repeat what Tuffy said, here's what took place this past Sunday evening...

http://christianarchy.lifewithchrist.org/permalink/30457

Reality Church?

Visit this link to Dan Kimball's blog and see if it describes your experience with the church.

http://www.dankimball.com/vintage_faith/2005/08/reality_church.html

Coach and Emerging Leader

When I lived in Vernon Hills, IL, I played on a traveling Jr. High basketball team named the Libertyville Jr. Wildcats. Over 3 seasons we went 80-2. We even got a chance to play in downtown Chicago against an all-star team that we ended up beating. It was a ton of fun playing on this team and I enjoyed all my teamates. The one thing I never realized was just how intelligent my coach was. (no offense Coach, but I was a young naive middle schooler) Scot McKnight led us through those three years while teaching as a professor in Religious Studies at North Park University. (Check out his theopedia entry here) Anyways, he was a great coach and an inspiration to me at the time and is even more so now as I have recently come across his blog and learned of his knowledge and leadership in the Emerging Movement. I've had a lot of questions regarding this term Emerging. Coach McKnight does a great job explaining it in this article.

Challenging Thoughts

Right now I'm in Kansas City at a Worship/Leadership Conference that is being held at the United Methodist Church of the Resurrection. So far it's been very interesting to hear some of the thoughts that are being brought to the surface from those faces who are identified with the Emergent Churches. These include Dan Kimball, Brian McLaren, and Tim Keel. I've really appreciated all they have said that challenges the way we think about Christianity and worship.

One of the things that I have taken from this is the clarification of what some terms mean that I've heard for a long time and not understood. Some of these include fundamentalist, conservative, post-Christendom, modernity, and evangelical. Although many of these terms are thrown around a lot, I've finally come to grips with what they really mean. However, it also seems to me that many people have their own definition for a lot of these words including emergent and post-modern. And to be honest, I'm not sure I fully undertand what these two mean. If I could try and define these after this weekend, I would say this...

Emergent is Christian living and worship that combines the tradition of the Church with the experiential learning style of a community's culture and attempts to remove the central focus of the Church from self to world.

Post-modern still escapes me as far as a definition goes. Some say that its basically as it says, being after the modern era. The modern era as I understand it really l